Royal Oaker, commenting on a post about the MSM lies about the PCUSA, wrote:
First and foremost, I - and many other Christians who believe sex is for marriage and that marriage unites the sexes - condemn mistreatment of homosexual people, just as we condemn mistreatment of anyone else. Both our views of sexuality and our views of how people should be treated are Bible-based. As such, I believe the Phelps family, the people calling themselves "Westboro Baptist Church", who are the people who hold up those signs and engage in other despicable behaviors, are violating the Commandments by using the Lord's name in vain. I don't know of any Baptist association that claims affiliation with Westboro. In my opinion, the second and third words in the name of their organization are lies. I do not recognize their organization as Christian.
Let's get real, though. They are just a handful of ostracized, pathetic people. Any church that holds to Biblical morality condemns what the Phelps family does. Presenting them as representative of Christians is like presenting Jeffrey Dahmer as representative of gay men (my apologies to Dahmer for the comparison to Phelps).
My church adheres to the Biblical teaching that sex is for marriage and that marriage unites the sexes. And yet I have sat through a presentation in that very church by a man about his homosexuality and the difficulties he's had with mistreatment and misunderstanding by others (and no, he wasn't doing an "ex-gay" thing). He's a welcome member of the church, yet neither he nor the church teaches that the Bible says homosexual behavior is not a sin. Our church has also been involved in HIV/AIDS charity. That the church teaches there is a right and wrong context for sexuality is not hateful, nor a justification for anyone to be hateful.
God doesn't hate homosexual people. I don't hate homosexual people. And yes, I'm going to invoke the cliché that I have homosexual friends and acquaintances (and relatives). They have no idea my position on homosexual behavior or neutering marriage. Why? They've never asked me. They've never made a big deal about it with me, and neither have I made it a big deal with them. I have never been uncomfortable being the token straight guy hanging out with a group of gay men, many of them couples. The rare instances in which I have been hit on, I took as flattering (I'd be worried if a lesbian hit on me, though). I treat homosexual people the same way I treat everyone else, of course.
I strongly believe in fundamental rights such as life, property ownership, freedom of speech, and freedom of association. As such, I want anyone who attacks a homosexual person, vandalizes their property, or unduly breaks a contract with him or her to be held legally and morally accountable, the same way as anyone would be held accountable if the victim was heterosexual. Employers should be free to grant benefits that cover partners, partners should be free to share their lives, hold ceremonies, so on and so forth. I applaud activist groups in their efforts to protect these rights (for example, in calling out true hate in Uganda). I don't have a problem with homosexual people, or the activist groups doing those things; my problem is with certain goals and tactics of some of the activist groups.
The activist groups are one reason homosexuality gets so much attention from Christian groups, as opposed to fornication, adultery specifically, or unbiblical divorce. When was the last time you heard of...
I'd rather Christians not even have to defend ourselves in this area and spend so much time focusing on this. Lord knows, there are many other things Christians could spend more time dealing with, including the hucksters and heretics selling their snake oil on supposedly Christian television and radio, and in books. But we can't just roll over on these issues. We live in this culture, too.
I do not deny that I am a sinner myself.
Check out The Marin Foundation
Stand to Reason:
What the Bible Teaches About Homosexuality
Jesus Never Said Anything About Homosexuality
Christian Research Institute:
Answering the Gay Christian Position
Christianity and Homosexuality
The Bible and Homosexuality
I don't see why Christians reserve so much hatred for gay people. You never see signs "God hates Divorced Persons!" or "God hates Adulterers!" like you see the perennial "God hates Phags!" There are rarely ever any articles written about how bad adulterers are, or divorced people, or women who have sex before marriage. Why are gay people always the victims of christian rage?
First and foremost, I - and many other Christians who believe sex is for marriage and that marriage unites the sexes - condemn mistreatment of homosexual people, just as we condemn mistreatment of anyone else. Both our views of sexuality and our views of how people should be treated are Bible-based. As such, I believe the Phelps family, the people calling themselves "Westboro Baptist Church", who are the people who hold up those signs and engage in other despicable behaviors, are violating the Commandments by using the Lord's name in vain. I don't know of any Baptist association that claims affiliation with Westboro. In my opinion, the second and third words in the name of their organization are lies. I do not recognize their organization as Christian.
Let's get real, though. They are just a handful of ostracized, pathetic people. Any church that holds to Biblical morality condemns what the Phelps family does. Presenting them as representative of Christians is like presenting Jeffrey Dahmer as representative of gay men (my apologies to Dahmer for the comparison to Phelps).
My church adheres to the Biblical teaching that sex is for marriage and that marriage unites the sexes. And yet I have sat through a presentation in that very church by a man about his homosexuality and the difficulties he's had with mistreatment and misunderstanding by others (and no, he wasn't doing an "ex-gay" thing). He's a welcome member of the church, yet neither he nor the church teaches that the Bible says homosexual behavior is not a sin. Our church has also been involved in HIV/AIDS charity. That the church teaches there is a right and wrong context for sexuality is not hateful, nor a justification for anyone to be hateful.
God doesn't hate homosexual people. I don't hate homosexual people. And yes, I'm going to invoke the cliché that I have homosexual friends and acquaintances (and relatives). They have no idea my position on homosexual behavior or neutering marriage. Why? They've never asked me. They've never made a big deal about it with me, and neither have I made it a big deal with them. I have never been uncomfortable being the token straight guy hanging out with a group of gay men, many of them couples. The rare instances in which I have been hit on, I took as flattering (I'd be worried if a lesbian hit on me, though). I treat homosexual people the same way I treat everyone else, of course.
I strongly believe in fundamental rights such as life, property ownership, freedom of speech, and freedom of association. As such, I want anyone who attacks a homosexual person, vandalizes their property, or unduly breaks a contract with him or her to be held legally and morally accountable, the same way as anyone would be held accountable if the victim was heterosexual. Employers should be free to grant benefits that cover partners, partners should be free to share their lives, hold ceremonies, so on and so forth. I applaud activist groups in their efforts to protect these rights (for example, in calling out true hate in Uganda). I don't have a problem with homosexual people, or the activist groups doing those things; my problem is with certain goals and tactics of some of the activist groups.
The activist groups are one reason homosexuality gets so much attention from Christian groups, as opposed to fornication, adultery specifically, or unbiblical divorce. When was the last time you heard of...
Adultery pride events including mass identified gatherings at family theme parks, parades down public streets, etc.We could argue all day about whether Christians focus too much on homosexuality as opposed to other things. I'm fairly certain there would be less focus on it if the activist groups were truly happy to stop at "live and let live" instead of trying to reorder all of society and demanding praise from all. Would there still be hateful people, or people who clumsily express their disapproval, while claiming to be Christians? Probably. I know I'm fine with live and let live.
Adultery sensitivity training so that people will think and act positively towards adultery
Adultery-Fidelity Alliances on campus
Adultery Education Network, promoting adultery as a positive thing
Books written for children about how adultery is a normal, good thing
Legislation to make sure schools identify adulterers in history and portray them positively
Adultery advocacy groups making an issue of changing church teachings and practices in dealing with adultery, with much positive coverage in the MSM
A relentless effort in interpretation gymnastics to claim that the Bible doesn’t really condemn adultery
Adultery Association Against Defamation, which, among other things, has an awards event that the MSM gives much coverage to, recognizing positive portrayals of adultery in the media
Parents and Friends of Adulterers, an organization that tells everyone else that everything, including their religion, has to be changed to affirm adultery as positive
A group of adulterers suing EHarmony.com to get them to allow married people to participate in their matchmaking service
Adultery organizations trying to force a fundamental change in marriage law on a disagreeing public via court activism
Adultery organizations trying to get a fast food chain kicked of campus throughout the country because one local outlet made meager donations to an association that does many things, only one of which is promoting fidelity as the ideal.
Adultery organizations attacking businesses to prevent them from ever donating again to an organization that might support a political candidate that has stated, as one of many positions, that fidelity is the ideal.
Adulterous church leaders being applauded and supported in being open and unrepentant about committing adultery (including supported by the MSM).
I'd rather Christians not even have to defend ourselves in this area and spend so much time focusing on this. Lord knows, there are many other things Christians could spend more time dealing with, including the hucksters and heretics selling their snake oil on supposedly Christian television and radio, and in books. But we can't just roll over on these issues. We live in this culture, too.
I do not deny that I am a sinner myself.
Check out The Marin Foundation
Stand to Reason:
What the Bible Teaches About Homosexuality
Jesus Never Said Anything About Homosexuality
Christian Research Institute:
Answering the Gay Christian Position
Christianity and Homosexuality
The Bible and Homosexuality
well said
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